Idea (alternative To Coal Content)

[Plain Old Me]

Has anyone ever tried using convective heat to heat shisha (like a popcorn maker or something maybe)? I am rather tired of spilling coal and ash on the carpet and haveing to deash the coals every 15 minutes (and replace them every now and then), and having to pay for more coals in general. I don't like having to wait for coals to heat, and I think that coals could probabally add more health risks to smoking. And I especially do not like handling and breaking charcoal and getting everything within a 3 foot radius black. So I was thinking that perhaps I could build a convective heater that consists of a tube above the bowl with as many heating elements in there as I can fit, connected to a pot (as in potentiometer) to regulate the temperature. I think I could get it to run off of rechargable (airsoft, RC car, etc) batteries to make it last for a good while before having to change batteries. And it would not burn the shisha unless you inhale, as the hot air will simply escape upwards unless you inhale. Is there any reason this will not work? I would probabally have to load a good amount of ice into the base to keep the temperature of the smoke decent, and I wonder if the smoke temperature would still be too high? I'm just juggling around ideas here, looking for maybe an alternative to charcoal. Any feedback on the idea would be great, I may be able to start working on it in a week or two if I have time.

[clickhea]

this idea has been discussed many times, if you run a quick search iam sure u'll find the posts very easily

someone suggested using the coils from a hair dryer

[Plain Old Me]

Do hairdryer coils get hot enough? The one I am looking at says 1875 watts. Also, does anyone know what exactly it would take to power one of the coils/how to control the temp? I wonder if it is fesable to use a battery to operate such a device...

[Luke69]

This has been tried many times and no one has had any real results. At least any that i've heard.

[Plain Old Me]

Where do you guys think I could get a decent heating element from? My ideas are the blow dryer and toaster as previously mentioned, or maybe also a stove coil if I could bend it enough,or maybe even something out of a coffee machine. Do they sell general application elements at hardware stores or big warehouse Home Deopt like stores? And there is still the question on how to power it. I will look into the heating element in the next few days and see what I can find, and perhaps test some elements.

Edit: I have been looking, and I think I may make my own heating elements out of nichrome wire or ribbon. Anyone have any ideas on the most efficient way to do this? Edited January 20, 2008 by Plain Old Me

[camelflage]

Where do you guys think I could get a decent heating element from? My ideas are the blow dryer and toaster as previously mentioned, or maybe also a stove coil if I could bend it enough,or maybe even something out of a coffee machine. Do they sell general application elements at hardware stores or big warehouse Home Deopt like stores? And there is still the question on how to power it. I will look into the heating element in the next few days and see what I can find, and perhaps test some elements.

from what i can remember, people have tried coils, hot rocks, ceramic heaters, light bulbs, and propane torches. most have to be plugged in, batteries would be possible if they generate enough current but that leads to larger batteries.

[antouwan]

i know that in saudi arabia they use something that looks like a mini wire stove top, like a hotplate, the size of the head to hold the tobacco, with a temperature regulator swith - i know it's plugged in. so i know the idea would work, as for battery powered - just try it out i guess

[Plain Old Me]

i know that in saudi arabia they use something that looks like a mini wire stove top, like a hotplate, the size of the head to hold the tobacco, with a temperature regulator swith - i know it's plugged in. so i know the idea would work, as for battery powered - just try it out i guess

The trouble I see with that kind of design is that you are applying constant heat to the shisha which could use it up very quickly. Charcoals get hotter as you inhale, which is why I think that a convection heater would work a bit better (you are only applying heat when you inhale) with perhaps some lower powered elements on top of the shisha to simulate coals not being inhaled into. I think I could easily make this work if I use an AC plug, but I am not sure about batteries. I thought about a step up transformer, but I dunno if higher voltage/lower current would be a good thing or even detremental. I am also not so sure about the regulator knob. I know I could use a switch with some power resistors, but I would really like to make a working knob design for more flexability. The only other design idea I had would be something like what you saw with a valve that either applies the hotplate wire or turns a knob to increase the heat.

[Plain Old Me]

I've been working on some physics equations to see if this project would even be fesiable, and I find myself lacking data. First, does anyone know around what temperature shisha gives off a good smoke, or what temperature a coal is when you take a good hit? I don't exactly have a decent thermometer around to test myself. Also, does anyone know the speed at which air travels through the shisha and down the hookah's stem?

[cassinho]

asa someone told you before, i guess the harder thing about this is to emulate the increase temperature the coal get when you inhale, probably you can makae something that will be always that hot but that probably will burn your shisha way to much

[Plain Old Me]

asa someone told you before, i guess the harder thing about this is to emulate the increase temperature the coal get when you inhale, probably you can makae something that will be always that hot but that probably will burn your shisha way to much

I am quite aware of that fact, as I stated it earlier in the thread. I am hoping that by designing the heater to only heat up the shisha via hot air while you inhale and possibly having a smaller heater in direct contact with the shisha (in order to replicate the coal "idleing" temperature if you will) this design would work.

Edit: Also, I am wondering what kind of material to make the heating tube out of. I think ceramic or clay would probabally be best as I need it to withstand high temperatures as well as be somewhat insulating and nonconductive of electricity. Does anyone know where I can get a ceramic or clay tube? I think I may end up having to make one myself... Edited January 22, 2008 by Plain Old Me

[mj_b90]

A ceramic tube would likely be found in a kitchen supply store or a science lab equipment store.

I'd suggest putting a heating coil a bit higher in the tube, say 3-5" off the top of the bowl. That way the tube sits on top of the bowl, draws cold air down through the coil, yet the coil is far enough away from the bowl to avoid burning the shisha too quickly.

This would also get rid of a need for a smaller heat source to mimic the coal without air flow because the clay would conduct enough heat to keep the bowl hot.

Let me know how things are working for you, I'd like to try this myself.

[Plain Old Me]

I think I may make the tube myself so that instead of suspending a coil in it I could use grids of NiChrome ribbon inserted before firing the clay/ceramic. It would be easier to turn on and off different sections of the grids to control temperature easily. I think I may also use a light dimmer to control the temperature some, though I cannot seem to find any rated over 600 watts. Not sure if there is any other good way to control temperature- nothing seems to be rated at a high enough wattage to consider. Finally, if I cannot get the heating ribbons hot enough I may put in a step down transformer to increase current (this may also work to make it battery capable). Now I get to go about collecting parts. Will update when I make some progress.

[manic007]

I think I may make the tube myself so that instead of suspending a coil in it I could use grids of NiChrome ribbon inserted before firing the clay/ceramic. It would be easier to turn on and off different sections of the grids to control temperature easily. I think I may also use a light dimmer to control the temperature some, though I cannot seem to find any rated over 600 watts. Not sure if there is any other good way to control temperature- nothing seems to be rated at a high enough wattage to consider. Finally, if I cannot get the heating ribbons hot enough I may put in a step down transformer to increase current (this may also work to make it battery capable). Now I get to go about collecting parts. Will update when I make some progress.

Before you make this you'll have to check whether nichrome vapour is poisionous. Despite nichromes high melting temperature it's likely that a tiny amount will slowly vapourise. You might be better off using a "proper" heating element. Those things usually have a coil of nichrome surrounded by ceramic, which is then placed inside a steel pipe (as found on electric stoves). Also a proper heating element will be safer since there is little chance of electrocution.

[Plain Old Me]

I think I may make the tube myself so that instead of suspending a coil in it I could use grids of NiChrome ribbon inserted before firing the clay/ceramic. It would be easier to turn on and off different sections of the grids to control temperature easily. I think I may also use a light dimmer to control the temperature some, though I cannot seem to find any rated over 600 watts. Not sure if there is any other good way to control temperature- nothing seems to be rated at a high enough wattage to consider. Finally, if I cannot get the heating ribbons hot enough I may put in a step down transformer to increase current (this may also work to make it battery capable). Now I get to go about collecting parts. Will update when I make some progress.

Before you make this you'll have to check whether nichrome vapour is poisionous. Despite nichromes high melting temperature it's likely that a tiny amount will slowly vapourise. You might be better off using a "proper" heating element. Those things usually have a coil of nichrome surrounded by ceramic, which is then placed inside a steel pipe (as found on electric stoves). Also a proper heating element will be safer since there is little chance of electrocution.

The NiChrome ribbon I am interested in is the same stuff used in toasters and blowdryers. I think it should be safe, but I will look into it. I am not sure if the ceramic surrounded ceramic would get hot enough...

[Plain Old Me]

Update:
Today I got wire (and a plug for AC outlet), dimmer (600 watts, hopefully enough to make a difference) sealant tape (takes over 500 degrees F) and switches (to switch off grids if you want). I am going to get the NiChrome ribbon sometime in this next week. Any ideas on a box to house the dimmer and switches?

[Gold Wing Gunner]

I work at Radio Shack, and we sell mountable project boxes, but depending on size and all that could be hard. I was looking to make one awhile back with a 12v battery thats made for nightvision goggles because its nice and small, so it could fit on a bowl rather than having cords everywhere, hoses are enough.

[Plain Old Me]

I work at Radio Shack, and we sell mountable project boxes, but depending on size and all that could be hard. I was looking to make one awhile back with a 12v battery thats made for nightvision goggles because its nice and small, so it could fit on a bowl rather than having cords everywhere, hoses are enough.

Yah I have seen the boxes, but I think that I can just make my own wooden box maybe after thinking about it. I have actually changed my design slightly- instead of using switches to turn parts of the tube off I am going to use the light dimmers only. I got 3 of them, rated at 600 watts a piece and they have off switches as well. They are the only reason I need the box, unless I decide that I need a transformer for a battery or something later, and while they add clutter I don't think it will be too bad. It is just 1 wire after all. I have also done a bit of design work since the last update. The most heating that a wall outlet can give is ~1800 watts, which is pretty much 3 sets of 600 watt grids. The ribbon I was looking at would require 10 feet in each grid to reach that, so I am going to look for some smaller gague wire. I think that the light dimmers should work- they just reduce voltage. Anyone with electrical experience wana chime in on that? Also as far as batteries go, I will try to make it compatible with some batteries such as RC car batteries, but chances are I will need a pretty good size array of em to work. Edited January 23, 2008 by Plain Old Me

[Plain Old Me]

Update:
I have completed the control box. I found a triple outdoor box thing for power outlets that also fits the dimmers I got. In one hole in the box is the power source (from an AC outlet) and out another hole are 4 cords (3 hot, and one neutral). It is kinda ugly, but it will work. I still need to get the heating element and make the actual air tube. Will post pics when I recharge my camera.

Edit:
Also did some math today. Looks like I am going to be using around 2 feet of 28 gauge (.0126 of an inch in diameter) NiChrome wire divided amongst the 3 stages. It doesn't seem like a lot, but according to my calculations it will give off around 1800 watts of heat while glowing at a nice ~1050 degrees C, which is 300 degrees C under its melting point. Wouldn't want to touch that wire! However, seeing as it is a really thin and easily breakable wire, I may end up going with more a lower gauge (bigger diameter) wire coiled to avoid any issues with physical damage to the wire. Edited January 25, 2008 by Plain Old Me

[Plain Old Me]

Ordered the NiChrome wire today. I guess I will make a clay tube to put the wire in. Anyone know of any health effects of clay, or any tips on what to get and how to make this tube? I think I need something that will be somewhat self hardening, as I do not have a kiln, but I think that if I leave the wire on inside of the tube the air should get around 700 or 800 degrees C over some time. Also, does anyone know how to glaze clay, you know like they do for hookah bowls?

[zeppyrkr]

best bet is finding someone in a art class that has access to a kiln and glaze, would make it super easy on you.

[Plain Old Me]

Update:
Got my NiChrome wire and attached it to the crimps. Pic is attached. Now all I need to do is get myself a nice ceramic or clay tube.

[hday]

There are several problems with placing the wires inside of a ceramic tube. One, how will you hook up the wires? Because if that tube is going to get really hot, the plastic coating on the wires will melt. You'd have to make an upside-down U shape or something with the wires sticking out the bottom. Secondly, if you put the wires inside of the clay before firing it, the clay shrinks and might get too tight around the wires and crack the finished piece. But, you wouldn't need to glaze it. The glaze is useless, unless you're using a unglazed bowl, because wet shisha will stain the unglazed parts.

If you wanted to use a clay tube, make the hole for the wire bigger than the wire itself. Which would be a bitch if you were using a U shape.

I've thought about this before and there were a few ideas that I came up with. One was to make some sort of clay tube that fit it over the bowl. Then there is another tube made of metal that slides into the ceramic tube. You just heat up the metal tube on the stove or in the oven and slide it into the ceramic tube. The downfall to this idea is if you drop the metal tube, it'll burn the floor.

The other idea I had was to buy a little terracotta pot and saucer. Most of those little pots have holes in the bottom. I'd drill another hole in the saucer and place the pot upside-down on the saucer. Then you can put your heating element in there, like a NiChrome wire wrapped in a spiral, and it'll keep most of the heat inside the pot.

The worst idea I had was the only one I ever tried. I thought, "Hey why don't I put a lighter over the bowl and pull the heat down." Then I caught the shisha on fire and it ruined my night.

[Plain Old Me]

There are several problems with placing the wires inside of a ceramic tube. One, how will you hook up the wires? Because if that tube is going to get really hot, the plastic coating on the wires will melt. You'd have to make an upside-down U shape or something with the wires sticking out the bottom. Secondly, if you put the wires inside of the clay before firing it, the clay shrinks and might get too tight around the wires and crack the finished piece. But, you wouldn't need to glaze it. The glaze is useless, unless you're using a unglazed bowl, because wet shisha will stain the unglazed parts.

If you wanted to use a clay tube, make the hole for the wire bigger than the wire itself. Which would be a bitch if you were using a U shape.

I've thought about this before and there were a few ideas that I came up with. One was to make some sort of clay tube that fit it over the bowl. Then there is another tube made of metal that slides into the ceramic tube. You just heat up the metal tube on the stove or in the oven and slide it into the ceramic tube. The downfall to this idea is if you drop the metal tube, it'll burn the floor.

The other idea I had was to buy a little terracotta pot and saucer. Most of those little pots have holes in the bottom. I'd drill another hole in the saucer and place the pot upside-down on the saucer. Then you can put your heating element in there, like a NiChrome wire wrapped in a spiral, and it'll keep most of the heat inside the pot.

The worst idea I had was the only one I ever tried. I thought, "Hey why don't I put a lighter over the bowl and pull the heat down." Then I caught the shisha on fire and it ruined my night.

This is how I have the nichrome connected to the regular copper wire:


The black plastic on there is piping silicon tape stuff that is rated at 500 degrees F. What I had been planning to do was kinda have the metal crimp right on a hole in the clay and suspending the nichrome coils in the tube using strands of really thick gauge nichrome (which has a really high melting point) attached to the tube wall in a kinda spiral shape.

[hday]

Yeah, the spiral idea seems pretty solid. The silicon tape is a good idea too, but I'd still be careful. Those copper wires will maintain heat from the nichrome, and I might keep and eye on them for the first few times. Not that they'd melt, but they might get hot enough to hurt your hands. I'm excited to see how it turns out. I just might make one myself.